chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet

He looked fine. Some of the other conditions, such as heart defects, are more difficult to see. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). I felt I needed proof of what was wrong before I take such a huge decision and that I couldn't do it based on what someone had written on, on the paper. Could she possibly have something that's not been detected? See you in -. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, "it didn't look good" and that "my womb looked raggedy". So I suppose from that aspect, mind you having not been told that or sitting there, I wouldn't have thought necessarily that was odd. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. I think they perhaps could have done, if they had looked a bit closely. I know it sounds odd that you want to hear that it's wrong, but you, you know it's wrong, and you, you want to be reassured either that it's okay or is there something seriously wrong. Christmas came and went in a blur of emotion, it felt so wrong to be celebrating when we were in such turmoil. As I lay down, and the sonographer started, I could see there was something wrong. That was the first time I had heard him cry. Sam squeezed my hand and told me it was ok. I sat and waited to be called for my scan. By this time, we were tired. We use some essential cookies to make this website work. This is not what I imagined pregnancy to feel like', Baby Loss Awareness Week - Voice Five - Bryony Seabrook. I guess the morphine made it easier. And this baby sort of floated, and occasionally there was a slight movement, but it was very you could almost see that he was really poorly just from looking at the screen. How was that scan different from the dating scan? Desperately trying to hold onto the glimmer of hope we'd been given. It was, 'Oh we'll come back to that'. On January 18, my baby was born, at 23 weeks - a little boy. By this point I had stopped bleeding, this caused problems. And having read, since read my information on Edwards' syndrome, a good 85 per cent have problems with the heart. This does not mean there is anything to worry about. I then found that soft markers means 'vague unproven suggestion of a link', and that echogenic locii are small concentrations of calcium which are incredibly common and harmless. I mean the lady who was scanning was very quiet for a long time. I had to wait for a doctor to explain the situation. And so this one can't tell you anything, it's pictures, you're going, you're going to see your baby, you're going to get pictures. So we went home really and I sort of had to think about it all night. Anyway we went in for the meeting with the consultant on this particular time, and we'd got to, I was 30 weeks pregnant by then. Thick milky discharge at 14 weeks.tmi pic attached. No, we really didn't, with hindsight we probably should have, but not at all, it never occurred to us to be worried about it. My son's congenital heart defect was detected at the 20 week scan and he had 2 other markers, no . So, in the end, we said we would arrange our own funeral. And there [sighs] was a very dark patch over one, where the eye socket was, and they didn't know it, in the Edward's babies sometimes the eyes don't develop properly, or it might have been bleeding, they weren't very sure. The scan yet again confirmed things were not good, however the sac had grown. You're in and out and that was it. My partner really wanted me to, and by that time I had no sense of what was right or what I should do. A black and white picture of your baby will then be seen on the ultrasound screen. And, faced with feeling sorry for myself or feeling sorry for my child, I know which I'd choose. It's, I mean you can't tell from these scans what you're looking at really, but I remember thinking, 'it just doesn't look quite right' or something, but I didn't give it much thought. And, for a few hours, I'm convinced I've made a terrible mistake. We need to have your opinion'. In a small number of cases some very serious conditions are found. I believed at this point I had miscarried, they wanted me to come back I'm for a follow up scan. There were also two spots on his heart, which were "soft markers" for Down's syndrome. The consultant at the time wasn't really that interested in that imagery. SO much upset and needless angst has been caused by 'soft markers' found at scans. It's a bit at the back of the brain and - no I can't remember what it is - it's called, it's something that's called Dandy-Walker mal, The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). The 18-20 week antenatal scan and further tests. Our baby was beautiful. So we went home, me to rest in an attempt to prevent miscarriage, my partner to reassure us both. If necessary, you will be referred to a specialist, possibly in another hospital. News stories, speeches, letters and notices, Reports, analysis and official statistics, Data, Freedom of Information releases and corporate reports. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, 'it didn't look good' and that 'my womb looked raggedy'. That they could have spotted something, or not? The sonographer told me to take the notes, and the scan photos with me so they could review them also. And I felt like a murderer. It wasn't measuring at all the right measurements for the age - there was a heart defect, the limbs were sort of distorted, the arms were, you know - you could see that the arms were very sort of contracted, the hands were contracted. We just couldn't use the words. This short video explains screening for 11 physical conditions in pregnancy. I think it's the same - in fact I think it was probably the same room, same consultant - and [sighs] I suppose it felt upsetting because at the dating scan you're full of hope and this scan we knew wasn't going to be good, we knew it was maybe the last time we would see the baby moving around. For instance a couple who knew their baby was 'on the small size' were told he was fine at the 18-20 week scan, but discovered at 32 weeks that he had microcephaly. You may need to have a full bladder when you come for the appointment. So we'd gone through the Down's syndrome or worse scare, we'd had conversations about what we would do, if it was confirmed that it was Down's syndrome or another syndrome, another sort of chromosome abnormality. Fine, go on my own. Purpose of screening. Well, at the regional hospital it was a 3-D scan. I think the whole experience has made me a pretty nasty person. Somehow, I walked from the sofa up to the bathroom and told my partner. So we gave up and said we'd arrange the funeral ourselves. Not surprisingly, people aren't quite sure how to deal with me. If you choose not to have the scan you can still have all other parts of your routine antenatal care. You do not have to have the scan. The hormone levels had dropped, but they wanted to scan me again. The gel makes sure there is good contact between the probe and your skin. The rarest scenario is that the baby is severely ill and choices will need to be made. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. Despite this new discovery, the sonographer was still concerned. Perhaps because we are alone in this, it has brought my partner and me very close. I have a terrible hatred of pregnant women and a new respect for infertile couples. That's fine. When he came back, he agreed on a termination. Most scans are carried out by specially trained staff called sonographers. Some parents wondered if it was possible to have the same scan done at 16 weeks rather than 20 weeks. It was sick. It was horrible. As soon as we arrived, we were shown to this little room. I loved him instantly and didn't want to let him go. If an abnormality is confirmed or suspected, referral is usually required, although some obvious major fetal abnormalities, such as anencephaly, may not require a second opinion (this should be decided by local guidelines). But you could see there was something wrong? The doctor didn't come. Never being able to look after himself. Read full disclaimer. A long process of blood tests, scans, doctors and hospitals. Dont include personal or financial information like your National Insurance number or credit card details. And the local hospital wanted to send us off to the regional hospital to actually confirm that, and were not really prepared to say at that time that there was something very seriously wrong. Wed like to set additional cookies to understand how you use GOV.UK, remember your settings and improve government services. I was becoming numb to the whole process. I did think it was a bit strange that she wasn't talking, and then she sort of said, 'Oh, I think there's a problem. The week that followed was an agonising wait. I want to be nice again. I hadn't thought about the mechanics of such a late termination, but had assumed it would mean some kind of operation. Well send you a link to a feedback form. It would have been nice to see someone straight away because I was in such shock. The scan will find about half (50%) of those babies who have heart defects. I broke down and started hitting my disgusting body that had done this. We would terminate the pregnancy. 18-20 week scans provide clinicians with more information than earlier scans because by18 weeks a healthy baby should be larger and better developed. All the time, the baby was kicking and I felt like a murderer waiting to strike her victim. My partner tried to remain calm, and at my request rang my mum. I have horrible thoughts. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. So it was just, we were coming up to the 20-week scan and I was just getting more relaxed, just actually starting to look at maybe baby catalogues or, you know, going down the baby aisle at the shops, which I'd always avoided. However painful and traumatic the labour was, it was better than what would happen at the end of it. We went in, had a scan, I can't remember the exact sequence of events because the baby was still in the wrong position. Do you have any thoughts about that? The same unique expression he had when he saw our two year old born. See more information about the 20-week ultrasound scan. I thought I was going to burst into tears. When I see a child with Down's syndrome, I have a tremendous need to explain myself and apologise a million times over. . He suggested he perform an amniocentesis immediately, to rule out any chromosomal problems. This publication is available at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/screening-tests-for-you-and-your-baby/11-physical-conditions-20-week-scan. Is it the same scan or is it the same equipment? This one cannot show you anything, that's what's inside your mind. The doctor gave her consent, and I took the four little tablets. And it was then because we were at 20 weeks by this point, there was only fairly short window to actually, to get some more tests done, find out what the problems were, and then make any decisions that might have to be made. And, sometimes, I wish I had invited my whole family into the hospital room to see him. She didn't say at the time that it was a major problem or that it was something to watch out for. It was just sort of deadpan faces, very serious looks, someone else coming to check. Maybe. I was then told yet again bad news. It went from bad, to worse, to worse, to dire, then to better. Because, when you're angry with the world for dealing you such a shit time, you begin to hate the people who populate it. So he was about two weeks smaller than what he should have been. I wanted to let nature take its course. I remember thinking, 'that doesn't look quite right'. Most scans show that babies seem to be developing as expected, and none of the 11 conditions are found. He's now had the all clear and is wriggling round on . We'll make an appointment with the senior sonographer, the consultant at the local hospital, and she'll do your scan and she'll be able to tell you more things'. The termination would be averting a tragedy. The baby was kicking so hard that I began to believe him. So I was, they couldn't actually finish the scan then, the baby was moving around too much, so they couldn't scan the heart and the stomach. The baby was very, very small. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. Slightly marked from our peers. The doctor wanted to do another blood test to confirm a significant drop in my hormone levels. And I, my husband and I both ran our own business at the time so we were desperate to get back and do some work, and things were going really well, so.. It was positive, and I felt elated. I know I could have delivered him in a quarter of the time, but I couldn't bear the thought of him leaving me. Have I misunderstood what's going on?' These opinions do not represent the opinions of Tommys and are not advice from Tommy's. Baby loss stories We were convinced everything would be OK. And they took us out of the scanning room, into a more quiet room while they typed up the report. As though I went power mad for a week, killing my innocent unborn child, and now I am tainted for ever. He had to come to the decision by himself. 'I was having nightmares and panic attacks. So obviously quite relaxed. or sort of light chat that we'd, we'd experienced before with previous scans. So that just left the talipes. A company limited by guarantee registered in England and Wales company number 3266897. The midwife was on the verge of tears and I felt responsible. After that I got, I, it was about in, in 19-, hang on a minute, 2001 I got pregnant again, slightly unexpectedly. I think I was about 20 weeks cos they, the hospital I think did the 12 and the 20, that was their standard thing and, yeah, so I got the 20 weeks one. The ultimate betrayal. I've been incredibly lucky to have such amazing support from Sam, my mum, and close friends and family. Dont worry we wont send you spam or share your email address with anyone. 13/12/2020 20:45. So I took the test and jumped in the shower. Like many things, the theory is very different from the reality. But she told us, she told us, she gave us some more detail, she said, 'There's this, there's a big gap in the brain where there shouldn't be'. The next day, it was confirmed that my bloods had again dropped. Again the legs were quite twisted, they said that the baby's sternum was very short - things weren't in proportion you know - the head was quite large, the neck was very thick, there wasn't really like a neck as such it was just things were kind of - there were lots of things that obviously the consultant could see that we weren't aware of. So even if anomolies are found, they don't always mean a problem.. x. I had issues at the 20 weeks scan with both of mine. But my brain had been given a train of thought that was impossible to stop. Several women had taken young children with them to the 20-week scan because they expected to see 'nice pictures of the baby'. There is more detailed information about the main conditions that are looked for during this scan on NHS.UK. You have accepted additional cookies. It is essential that all practitioners performing fetal anomaly ultrasound screening should be trained to communicate abnormal findings to women, as such information is likely to have significant emotional impact. I had no idea if we were doing the "right" thing. And I wish that I'd been told at that point, that somebody had actually turned round to me and said, 'Look, I'm sorry, but I think there's something very wrong. But other than that everything was fine. I think at that time she had come to terms better with the fact that this baby was going to be terminated, and I don't think I was quite there. Nights were impossible. . As I was called for my scan I was nervous and emotional. So we decided to book an early 10 week private scan. I swallowed the tablet and we left the building. The scan looks for 11 different conditions in your baby and cannot find everything that might be wrong. We went, I went in to the scanning room and they're quite bland facially anyway, whether everything's fine or not they just look at the screen to start off with and do measurements but I very quickly realised that the woman's demeanour wasn't, even for a bland face, was concerning. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. If you think you may have a medical emergency, call your doctor, midwife or hospital immediately. We're still not at the end of our journey, but we're much further along. Within two days I was waiting in my local EPU unit for further tests. And they took me into another room. Surely he couldn't have missed anything else that is so serious x. And I'd been on the internet looking up all sorts of things and everything was so negative, it was very depressing, because I thought, 'Well, maybe they've made a mistake, or maybe it's something they can fix, I don't know'. The 18-20 week antenatal scan and further tests, Ending the pregnancy for family & personal reasons, Deciding whether to see, hold and name the baby, Photographs and other mementoes of the baby, Saying goodbye to the baby - services & funerals, Coping with bereavement - women's experiences, Coping with bereavement - men's experiences, Men's ideas about their role in ending a pregnancy. So we left it there, and we didn't actually think that there was anything really to worry about after that scan. But no. I wasn't ready to make a decision straight away, and I was told I could call them in the morning. I felt sad, but not the complete devastation of the last scan as they had seen a change of some sort. It was probably all right but hadn't had any fluid in it at the moment. So and you could see the exomphalus, this little pouch, which was obviously just the intestines where they are. This scan takes place between 18 weeks and 20 weeks 6 days of pregnancy and is commonly called the 20-week scan. ABDOMINAL CIRCUMFERENCE MEASUREMENT AT 20 WEEK SCAN. 1. We didn't feel we could tell anyone what was happening. He felt doing more blood tests would only cause me more discomfort and false hope. I couldn't bring myself to push. Looked exactly like our two year old as a baby. Has anyone been told the wrong sex at 20 week scan? Previous scans in this pregnancy and with my first child had been fun - a chance to see the baby wriggling around and perhaps find out its sex. But at the 20 week scan, which was on a Wednesday, we saw the nurse at the local hospital, the sonographer, and she did a scan and she found that the femur length was quite short in the, in the fetus. I didn't really know what that was. We'd just spent some time away on a, on a summer holiday and come back expecting to have this scan and be told, 'All fine. We strongly advise readers not to take drugs that are not prescribed by your qualified healthcare provider. The decision to terminate the pregnancy was my partner's and mine. Away you go'. It felt as if we had gone power crazy. Because we knew that that wasn't normal, that wasn't what we'd experienced before, it wasn't just the, 'There's the arm, there's the leg, oh look the baby's moving'. The screen may be directly facing them or at an angle. I can't remember the exact words but she said, 'There might be some fatal problems with your baby'. And, so they sent me home at that stage because they said the specialist wasn't available till the following day, which was awful. I faced another internal scan where I began to feel helpless and alone. And the doctor - because it was a doctor rather then just the, a sonographer or whatever the correct term is - was scanning my wife, and she hovered over the heart of the baby and said, 'Oh there's the heart, we'll come back to that'. It was a bit worrying but on the plus side I got an extra couple of scans and an extra couple of pictures. And I couldn't escape the feeling that I was being selfish. (See 'Resources'). But it was very evident. Some say this estimate is really below the reality, and the out-of-pocket average costs are higher. Many described how sonographers and doctors were very restrained and didn't speak at all until they had analysed all the baby's details. The consultant explained that this was just very bad luck and not, as far as they knew, genetic. Several parents said they would have preferred being told something, even it was vague. The doctor told me he was 98% sure this was a failing twin pregnancy. It's part of our family. . We left for home feeling completely numb. All my plans were beginning to fall down. I just feel very unlucky. He looked excited. Registered office: Nicholas House, 3 Laurence Pountney Hill, London, EC4R 0BB. I was saving my child from pain and suffering. It's been a heartbreaking nightmare. The baby kicked, blissfully unaware of what I had done. I'd had the scan in the scanning room, I can't remember what they call it now, it's silly, it's gone from my head. No one else but my partner saw how similar he was to our son. I was given a leaflet and told to return four days later to see the consultant. No one else attended and we didn't have a service. For example, you may be offered further tests that have a risk of miscarriage. But they didn't. We don't know, but it's not looking good'. And still we asked to see a, Impact of the 20-week and later specialist scans. It was over. And of course some other measurements she needed to take like the width of the skull, which she couldn't take because the fetus was in the wrong position. I want to enjoy my son again, without any reservations. At first, I still had to deal with the physical implications of having given birth. I can feel my child kick, it responds when he shouts at football - I mean literally, this baby used to dance around whenever he'd like scream at a goal - and there cannot be anything wrong with this child because it's part of us already. The "why me?" We decided that we wanted medication to help me. And my husband, we never got to sit next to each other in the consulting room, my husband was across the room from me, and I was sat next to the consultant, and we were laughing and joking with him about, you know, the home delivery, and everything was going to be, 'Are you still on for the home delivery?' So I lay on the bed and my partner sat next to me. I was wondering if anyone has been is this situation and can give me a glimmer of hope. Why me and not you, you bastard? You could see her face, and the major aspect that was, that was the indication of what was wrong was the thickening at the back of the neck in this instance, which, when you're looking at a fetus is, you know, sort of half a centimetre thicker or not is completely immaterial to me, and would look like a completely normal neck, but from the point of view of the consultant was severely abnormal. And thank God I did. The consultant had said it wouldn't be like a normal delivery. I was becoming numb to the whole process. Impact of the 20-week and later specialist scans It is also sometimes referred to as the mid-pregnancy scan . To help us improve GOV.UK, wed like to know more about your visit today. Went back a week later for the scan and, you were with me for this one, weren't you? Then I picked myself up. You get extra care and monitoring as appropriate and baby is proactively treated. I felt the dread run through me. So we hid in our house. I wanted to be a passive patient while the doctor did what he had to do. He wanted to talk about it, but I didn't. I pray it's just her heart but I can't see anything else is wrong as I have been scanned by a consultant since I was 14 weeks and every time he has said everything looks okay and she is growing consistently. Maybe our son would have overcome his problems, survived his illnesses, led a happy life. . For example, the babys brain, kidneys, internal organs or bones may not have developed properly. With my oldest it turns out she has a minor thing that affects 1 in 1000 of the population and wont harm her at all it's just "there" and with my second the issue turned out to be nothing. Sometimes a post mortem was needed to confirm the 20-week diagnosis to see if the baby had inherited a genetic problem (such as Fowler syndrome - see '.